Few realise how far the dismantling of the NHS has progressed. We entered the NHS in different eras. My first few years were not tainted by neo-liberalism. By the time Ahmad qualified it had already become a market and the corporate vultures were circling. In 2025 their mission is almost complete. So I can see why Ahmad doesn’t want THAT NHS. The one we have now. Nor do I. All his criticisms of the way big business runs healthcare I agree with.
So I think he made my case for me !
My argument is that we should get back to as it was intended to be 70+ years ago.
Everyone should admire and strive for Bevan’s principles of a universal comprehensive service, publicly provided, publicly accountable, publicly funded through taxation and free when needed. But to be fit for today it should have the added principles of being ethical, moral, with fully informed consent and bodily autonomy with little or no big pharma influence.
I was wrong-footed by the opposition to my views about private medicine (even being asked if I was a communist !) but nothing I heard has really changed my mind. When doctors and money mix, there is usually trouble. Worse there is often corruption, fraud and clinical decisions not made totally in the patient’s best interest.
Ahmad is correct in saying some doctors provide a very good, ethical service to their private patients. I’m sure he does. But what has to be pointed out - and to be fair Ahmad said - is that many private doctors now work for the corporates which want to - indeed it is their duty to - extract as much profit as possible. That is not consistent with the best practice. Patients beware. As the NHS is finally swallowed up by big business many will learn this to their cost.
And private medicine with hour long consultations is no answer for those who cannot afford it. That results in a two tier service. The American way.
If I had been quick enough I would have challenged Ahmad on his criticism of NHS staff. Most work hard and do a good job. You can’t condemn a whole system because of a few “bad apples”. The parallel is saying there should be no welfare state because a few of our fellow citizens are lazy and lie in bed all day expecting handouts. Plus I challenge his claim that doctors only march when they want more money. The junior doctors’ strike of a few years ago was portrayed in the main stream media as only about that, but it wasn’t. It was against NHS privatisation but reporting that didn’t suit the Daily Mail and its allies. It might have alerted the public too much.
But meeting and debating with Ahmad was fun.
We really think alike but are coming from different directions.
The link to the interview with the magnanimous George Galloway back in 2019 shortly after the debut novel THE DECEIT SYNDROME:Catch 69 was published https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp9w42NKXPQ
Thanks for clearing up a few points here, Dr Hobday. Centralisation is a huge feature of communism, so maybe it was OK that Ahmad asked you that question! Wouldn't the private medicine model work if there were enough competition (and the shackles of medical insurance were shaken off)?
Can I refer you to the American economist Kenneth Arrow's paper which destroys the argument that competition in healthcare is good--or even works. Although old its still very relevant today
Back in the early 1990s our GP practice started to do free referrals to complementary practitioners, such as homeopaths, medical herbalists, reflexologists etc which took place at the surgery. My 4-year-old son had developed severe eczema immediately after his first set of baby vaccines at 8 weeks of age and the only medical advice was to "manage" it with steroid creams and emollients. It just got worse and worse. I recall taking a prescription to the pharmacy and the pharmacist was shocked, asking if this prescription was really for a young child. So when the free referrals started, we saw a homeopath who gave him a remedy which didn't really do much. At the follow up, a month later, another remedy was given and by 6 weeks his eczema had cleared up!!
Sadly this free referral didn't last, after a while we just had to contribute to the cost of the room, then it disappeared altogether.
My sincere thanks to Ahmad for a good chat.
Few realise how far the dismantling of the NHS has progressed. We entered the NHS in different eras. My first few years were not tainted by neo-liberalism. By the time Ahmad qualified it had already become a market and the corporate vultures were circling. In 2025 their mission is almost complete. So I can see why Ahmad doesn’t want THAT NHS. The one we have now. Nor do I. All his criticisms of the way big business runs healthcare I agree with.
So I think he made my case for me !
My argument is that we should get back to as it was intended to be 70+ years ago.
Everyone should admire and strive for Bevan’s principles of a universal comprehensive service, publicly provided, publicly accountable, publicly funded through taxation and free when needed. But to be fit for today it should have the added principles of being ethical, moral, with fully informed consent and bodily autonomy with little or no big pharma influence.
I was wrong-footed by the opposition to my views about private medicine (even being asked if I was a communist !) but nothing I heard has really changed my mind. When doctors and money mix, there is usually trouble. Worse there is often corruption, fraud and clinical decisions not made totally in the patient’s best interest.
Ahmad is correct in saying some doctors provide a very good, ethical service to their private patients. I’m sure he does. But what has to be pointed out - and to be fair Ahmad said - is that many private doctors now work for the corporates which want to - indeed it is their duty to - extract as much profit as possible. That is not consistent with the best practice. Patients beware. As the NHS is finally swallowed up by big business many will learn this to their cost.
And private medicine with hour long consultations is no answer for those who cannot afford it. That results in a two tier service. The American way.
If I had been quick enough I would have challenged Ahmad on his criticism of NHS staff. Most work hard and do a good job. You can’t condemn a whole system because of a few “bad apples”. The parallel is saying there should be no welfare state because a few of our fellow citizens are lazy and lie in bed all day expecting handouts. Plus I challenge his claim that doctors only march when they want more money. The junior doctors’ strike of a few years ago was portrayed in the main stream media as only about that, but it wasn’t. It was against NHS privatisation but reporting that didn’t suit the Daily Mail and its allies. It might have alerted the public too much.
But meeting and debating with Ahmad was fun.
We really think alike but are coming from different directions.
Direct link to the book THE DECEIT SYNDROME
https://strandpublishing.co.uk/product/the-deceit-syndrome/
All proceeds go to campaigns fighting for the NHS
Paul Hobday second hour guest on The Richie Allen Show Thursday January 20th 2022 podcast on PodOmatic https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/richieallen/episodes/2022-01-20T11_52_06-08_00
The link to the interview with the magnanimous George Galloway back in 2019 shortly after the debut novel THE DECEIT SYNDROME:Catch 69 was published https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp9w42NKXPQ
Thanks for clearing up a few points here, Dr Hobday. Centralisation is a huge feature of communism, so maybe it was OK that Ahmad asked you that question! Wouldn't the private medicine model work if there were enough competition (and the shackles of medical insurance were shaken off)?
Hi Frankie,
Can I refer you to the American economist Kenneth Arrow's paper which destroys the argument that competition in healthcare is good--or even works. Although old its still very relevant today
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/instance/2585909/pdf/15042238.pdf
Paul
Back in the early 1990s our GP practice started to do free referrals to complementary practitioners, such as homeopaths, medical herbalists, reflexologists etc which took place at the surgery. My 4-year-old son had developed severe eczema immediately after his first set of baby vaccines at 8 weeks of age and the only medical advice was to "manage" it with steroid creams and emollients. It just got worse and worse. I recall taking a prescription to the pharmacy and the pharmacist was shocked, asking if this prescription was really for a young child. So when the free referrals started, we saw a homeopath who gave him a remedy which didn't really do much. At the follow up, a month later, another remedy was given and by 6 weeks his eczema had cleared up!!
Sadly this free referral didn't last, after a while we just had to contribute to the cost of the room, then it disappeared altogether.
Also back then, your GP could refer you to one of the homeopathic hospitals for free treatment but, due to a dodgy report produced in Australia in 2014 (later "amended"), homeopathy on the NHS has disappeared, despite only using a minuscule portion (0.004%) of the NHS budget! (see https://www.hri-research.org/resources/essentialevidence/how-much-is-spent-on-homeopathy-research-homeopathy-treatment/)
Info on Australian report here: https://www.hri-research.org/resources/homeopathy-the-debate/the-australian-report-on-homeopathy/
I enjoyed this conversation very much, thank you both.
I wrote about the foundation of the NHS and how it was opposed some years back.
The reasons for it were particularly unpleasant....
https://francesleader.substack.com/p/origins-of-the-british-national-health